23 thoughts on “Debate ’08: Round One

  1. seriously boring, i don’t know what i was expecting? jim said, yeah one canidate is generally a very non-exciting person and the other can’t not read from a teleprompter, this what you get. snore.

  2. well, as i said on your facebook, i found it very disappointing that obama “agreed” so much w/ mccain. that’s the same thing that gore the pushover did in 2000 and kerry the zombie did in 2004. the gloves have to come off.

    in regard to a few particulars…the whole surge thing has always bothered me, b/c people like mccain are ignoring one key fact – if the war never needed occur in the first place how is a surge “ok”? did it work? well, i’d say it helped. that’s kind of what you’d expect. but the point i want to make is there wouldn’t have been any surge if there never was any war! so, debating over whether or not the surge worked or was wanted is moot – debate over the damn war happening at all!!!

    now, you know i’m 100% anti-corporate controlled 2 party system govt. but, i really do hope that obama wins b/c i look around and see a country that i think you could diagnose with depression. if only they made effexor xr for countries (i think maine would be the mouth, right?)! i don’t want to turn this post into a “well i want so & so for reasons a,b & c”, but if obama loses the election, after 8 years of bush, it will be b/c of voter fear. fear of change, fear of “inexperience” (wasn’t a problem for jfk!), fear of a half black dude with a funny name being president. my concern is that fear seems to be the major motivation of american voters. we’ll have to wait & see…

  3. Not to go all CSI: Body Language Expert on the thing, but McCain has a tick that I’m wondering if anyone else noticed. When he’s agitated, he smiles and laughs. In a sort of, “Man I can’t stand you, you little S.O.B.” sarcastic sneer kind of way. I’d love to play poker with the guy.

    While I got lost in the abyss of post-Soviet fledgling democracies at some point, I was impressed with McCain’s ability to dissect the goings on of current world affairs. Even if he incorrectly referred to Pakistan as a “failed state.”

    I thought Obama’s “using a hatchet when what’s needed is a scalpel” point was a good one when talking about a spending freeze. It’s weird to me to think that the same government who tried to stimulate the economy by giving us all back a bunch of money to spend, would agree to a spending freeze to help save the economy. Seems unrealistic. What kind of impact would that have on education? Housing? Would the subsidies we give oil companies be a part of that freeze? What would happen to gas prices then? The economy in general? I’d be interested to read if any economists agree that considering a freeze would be a good idea.

  4. Alot of my comments are at Tim these days…maybe because he’s aan easy target and I just don’t want to get into it with Shane…

    About JFK…

    I know I’m saying something semi-blasphemous to all of USAdom…but..


    What did he really do? Made some good speeches. What policies did he really enact? The space race? Bay of Pigs? Cuban Missile Crisis?

    He was young, chic, and “change” from the stagnation of the 50’s. That was about it. He was a celebrity whose most remember for being the hip president who got assassinated. That’s why he’s dearly beloved by the nation…not because he was our finest President.

    Go ahead and compare Obama to JFK all you want. It doesn’t mean he’s what’s best for the country.

  5. cricky, my irish grandfather might come hunt you down like a moose in his backyard and shoot you for such blasphemy!

    no, i realize jfk wasn’t the greatest president. in his own century he’s certainly far behind both roosevelts, and depending on your affiliation, both reagan and clinton. but, the man did a lot in 2 years. and that’s a big thing, bro – he was only president for 3 years!!! he averted nuclear holocaust through meticulous foreign policy. that’s kind of a big deal. you say bay of pigs and cuban missile crisis like it’s no big thing. that’s huge! the soviet union was ready to blow us to oblivion, and through he & bobby’s intelligent and covert approach was able to stop it from happening. what do you think would have happend if W was president then?!?!?!?!?!?!?! also, on a huge domestic note, he began the civil rights process becoming law. eisenhower told mlk “the country isn’t ready yet”, kennedy said “let’s get this started”, and if bobby kennedy had not been cut down, he’d have made this such a better country. he’s the only president to have won a pulitzer prize. he started the peace corps. he tried to avert war in vietnam, which is probably what got him killed. he passed the nuclear test ban treaty. he was instrumental in passing legislation to help the elderly, improve health care, and improve the economy.

    i think you may have vaaaaaaaaaaaaaastly underestimated just how good of a president john fitzgerald kennedy, may he rest in peace, was.

  6. and cricky you know i love you, how could anyone not love a man named cricky?!?! 🙂 but grampy brown still might shoot. he’s very grizzled >;P

  7. I gotta go with Cricky on this one. JFK is over-hyped. Everything I’ve read about his foreign policy from Berlin to the Bay of Pigs to Vietnam was botched in some way. Civil Rights at that time was played through the judicial system, not the executive branch.

    Johnson, despite being a big, hairy jerk was the one that took Kennedy’s talk and made it reality. Now that guy really knew how to play the game. (Begrudged admiration.)

    JFK was a handsome man and a good speaker. Just getting elected (despite the Chicago-Daly fiasco) on a platform of change was huge at that time. You have to give him respect for the vast undertaking he made, but it was more than he could handle. He was the trail-blazer to Johnson’s city-builder.

    I have to admit I missed the debate. I fell asleep early (tantamount to admitting I’m old and have children). I’ll have to catch up on the rest later.

  8. like what? marilyn monroe?

    good looks, quotable speeches, nostalgia and our collective love of conspiracy has turned his presidency into the stuff of legends.

  9. Once again I have to agree with Jim where I don’t want these two to pretend to be friends.

    Debates are a terrible way for people to try and figure out who likes what. Its a shame a lot of undecided voters will base their decision off of these snooze fests.

    Instead of debates and mass reading I will turn to Shanebertou.com and find out what to do in a time of turmoil. He will find us the wolf and not the sheep candidate for sure!

  10. @ stem: did you read a single thing i wrote?

    i will copy & paste for you, since apparently you missed it.

    1. averted nuclear holocaust through meticulous foreign policy. the soviet union was ready to blow us to oblivion, and through he & bobby’s intelligent and covert approach was able to stop it from happening.
    2. he began the civil rights process becoming law. eisenhower told mlk “the country isn’t ready yet”, kennedy said “let’s get this started”. he got the ball rolling.
    3. he’s the only president to have won a pulitzer prize.
    4. he started the peace corps.
    5. he tried to avert war in vietnam, which is probably what got him killed.
    6. he passed the nuclear test ban treaty.
    7. he was instrumental in passing legislation to help the elderly, improve health care, and improve the economy.

    in two years. did you fail history class?

  11. i read everything you wrote.
    i think i have a lifetime b+ average in history. maybe a low a-

    #’s 2, 5 and 7 are vague. with the exception of number 5, any president in history can claim to have done as much in two years in equally vague terms. if you want to hang your hat on # 5, that’s fine. But it’s a position of ideology and not an actual accomplishment.

    # 1 is debatable on these grounds: the soviets bungled and bobby did the heavy lifting.

    #’s 3,4 and 6 are facts that are intriguing and helpful to understand kennedy as a person. i think he was a great guy. i think he was a decent president. but
    he wasn’t the supreme lord and potentate of compassion and justice that he’s made out to be.

    the one thing you should have mentioned was the space program and our mission to the moon. that was fantastic on his part.

  12. i agree, he’s not what he’s made out to be. neither is elvis or the beatles, but it doesn’t mean they weren’t great. like i said to cricky, both roosevelts were far superior as presidents. i just think that in a span of 2 years, he made a huge impact – for the betterment of our country. and one can only imagine how much more he could have done, or bobby had he not been killed, as well.

    so that being said, how ’bout that debate? when is the next one, anyways?

  13. @mudpupppy: Hilarious!

    @Jim: And that’s one of the things that drives me bonkers, being under the same big tent with those who elevate Obama to messiah status. Just as I’m sure you can relate from being lumped in with all the tin foil hat wearing Ron Paul supporters.

    I actually withdrew my support from a local faith-based group of Obama supporters. When they started talking about how he had been annointed to lead my stomach started to kurdle. I was willing to campaign with them, do voter registration drives in my neighborhood, etc. But they kind of creeped me out. Just like these crazy folks and their kids.

  14. i enjoy hearing the arguments from christians about how one candidate is the more christian choice than the other.
    to me that’s just crazy talk. but that’s me and this is not the place for the argument.

  15. our good friend tommy jefferson was 100% right (though i think the reason is that it’s the church that gets corrupted when married to the state, not vice versa). it just drives me crazy whenever people use faith for the sake of a political agenda. the religious left is the same as the religious right…i just agree with the left a lot more. but, the more jim wallis goes obama crazy the more uncomfortable i get. yeah, my faith obviously motivates my socio-political outlook, but i’m not gonna say jesus would vote nader!

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