Debate ’08: Round Two

Alright, apparently the gloves are officially off. McCain’s knuckles read “Wright” and “Ayers,” while Obama’s say “Keating Five.” Frankly I’m surprised either side “went there,” but I guess it makes for good drama.

We’ve also got “Joe Six-Pack” yelling out “Kill him” at McCain rallies, “Joe Six-Pint” is shooting people for wearing an Obama t-shirt and anti-Obama authors are being detained in Kenya.

I think it’s safe to say that things are getting just a wee bit out of control. Once again, I don’t expect tonight to live up to the hype – but I don’t think it’s going to be pretty either.


42 thoughts on “Debate ’08: Round Two

  1. i’m just waiting for when McCain cracks and just freaks at Obama…calling him some kind of name like “inexperienced pansy” or something to that effect.
    picture that drill sergeant guy from Full Metal Jacket.

  2. That video was frightening. The sad thing is that while you’d expect that from certain parts of the country, I’ve had those same conversations with people in suburbia and many members of my own family.

    The sick part is that this is being reinforced by the statements made by Sarah Palin and the McCain campaign over the past few days. Seriously, I hope this comes up tonight. John McCain used to be better than this, and I supported him in his 2000 bid over Bush. I know a few of you and I want to know (just open discussion, not an attack) if you’re having a hard time with some of the stuff being said and what it seems to be stirring up in people. Again, I’m just genuinely curious. At what point do you contact a campaign and say enough is enough?

  3. Do you think I’m cute, Senator Obama? Do you think I’m funny?

    we had this discussion in my class about how all these “white” obama supporters are believing in hope & change, but many “black” people are saying they still aren’t going to vote b/c it doesn’t matter, if he does get elected, he’ll get killed the next day. honestly, if one nutjob can shoot a guy for wearing a shirt, why do we not think one nutjob wouldn’t shoot obama? this is why colin powell’s wife begged him not to run. it’s a reality, but no one wants to mention it. if he wins, he’ll need a pope mobile. and that’s the thing about these VP picks, it’s highly likely that either of them will become president. i think i already said that once in here. but yeah, sentiment remains, maybe it’s the pessimist in me, but i honestly don’t think all the racist nutjobs in this country will not try to do what that idiot did the guy b/c of his shirt. this country is FULL of people like that. i’m suprised people aren’t reporting windshields being smashed and tires being slashed for having obama stickers, honestly. i’m sure that’s happening back home in central maine. and it makes me sick.

    but here’s to hoping the gloves come off for both. stop saying you agree with each other and start throwing some swings! it’s a debate not a polite conversation. obama needs to remember what happened to gore and kerry.

  4. Right on Tim! I hope that happens too. I want a debate, not stump speeches.

    Having visited the South and Midwest this summer, there is a venom to what people are saying when they talk about Obama that I have rarely heard in my lifetime. It’s not about politics or policy at all.

  5. 1. am i wrong or was that dude shot in Britain?
    2. i honestly believe that Corsi being detained isn’t that big a deal regarding the election…it’s typical crazy country stuff when it comes to foreigners looking like they might be on to something.
    3. kill him shouts aren’t really that big a deal either. i mean seriously, they’ll be called “right wing nut jobs”. call bush an idiot, accuse him of treason, and call for his hanging and you’re called intelligent. all’s fair. ask ben. he’d kill bush in a heartbeat.

    don’t get me wrong…i don’t support calling for anyone’s death, but c’mon, it’s a political rally.

  6. 1. Indeed. The incident happened in London. Thus the Joe Six-Pints.

    2. I agree with you. I’ve spent time in Africa. It’s crazy over there. You can get dragged in for just about anything and they don’t really have to justify it at all.

    3. I don’t know. I think it’s a slightly bigger deal than that. Not much, but slightly. At the very least I felt that McCain and Palin should’ve said something to tone it down. Rather than a non-response which looks like a passive agressive form of encouragement. My expectations of Obama would be equally as high. I just want a little dignity restored to the office, that’s all.

  7. More jabs tonight, but overall a whole lot of nothing… I know it’s politics, and it’s what happens, but I am annoyed by the consistent snide comments of McCain. He just seems childish and arrogant. I don’t look to my president to be entertaining, but apparently Palin’s success with being “cutsey” has made him think he can pull it off. Sorry John, you don’t have the legs for it.

  8. Lets not try to pretend that both sides dont do the same exact slandering and name calling. Obama makes the same exact snide remarks Mccain does.

    I find it very interesting that Obama is concerned about small and large buisnesses when it comes time to justify voting for the bailout but his economic plan taxes small and large buisnesses. On why he was for the bailout “Small and large buisnesses can’t get loans so they can’t make payroll thus they can’t hire and may have to close thier doors”

  9. I liked this debate more than the other two. I didn’t react negatively to the shots taken between the two candidates, maybe I missed something (I was working on my laptop while listening to the debate)…although, I do remember laughing at Mccain referring to Obama as “this guy”.
    Neither candidate brought up the negative stuff that has been thrown around by the campaigns this week, which would have changed my opinion.

    Mccain highlighted Obama’s relative inexperience and contrasted it with his long Senate record. McCain also mentioned Reagan’s work with the Democrats as an example worth emulating. Republicans remember Reagan fondly, and Ronnie did bring in a lot of moderate Democrat votes (which is something McCain hopes/needs to do).

    I felt like Tom did a better job keeping the candidates on topic.

  10. what I took away from the debate:
    If Barrack had an afro I would vote for him, hands down. Otherwise I’m probably voting for neither.

  11. someone ask jim why obama needs an afro! 😉 halfway through we started watching chris rock instead, terribly offensive, but funny.
    i agree with john k. i wanted someone to say, uh excuse me obama, what do you think is going to happen when you tax them?
    i hate that this is never ending. i think this campaigning for 2 years nonsense has everyone tired and way over it all. let’s vote already.

  12. It’s a cyclical argument that, depending on who you’re inclined to favor, you’re going to take that side.

    It goes like this:

    McCain: Obama wants to raise your taxes on small business.

    Obama: No I don’t. I want to decrease taxes on 95% of American workers.

    McCain: That may be, but what you propose amounts to a tax increase on small businesses.

    Obama: No it doesn’t.

    McCain: Yes it does.

    Obama: Uhm… no.

    See also:

    A) Obama’s willingness to meet with our enemies without precondition.

    B) McCain’s healthcare plan will tax your employer for medical benefits.

    C) This guy voted for that thing X number of times.

    D) Well this guy voted for that other thing X number of times – times infinity!

  13. yes, minus the fabulous sweaters.

    and i think he needs an afro because he is sort of reminiscent of a certain animal (which will remain unnamed for fear of claims of racism against me) and the afro would do away with that look immediately.
    also, i think the afro would inspire a certain level of confidence like hey, i’ve got an afro John. What have you got? a limp and a combover? c’mon, bring it old man.

    i have multiple times in my life been compared to a Muncheechee and a monkey and Eddy Munster or the love child of both. I think I have a little wiggleroom on this one.

  14. this is why we need ralph nader up there to call b.s. and just yell at them. not only would it be entertaining but it would be educational 🙂

    or maybe have ron paul be the moderator. i fell asleep and i blame tom brokaw.

  15. ha! i’m a deadringer for that picture right now with my beard getting fuller by the day. of course, he clearly has his unibrow under control unlike me.
    anywho, back to the debate talk.
    yes, it would be awesome to have nader and ron paul going after these two. but remember, ron paul was literally laughed at during the primaries by some other candidates. the media doesn’t want truth. it wants a soap opera.

  16. I don’t know how I feel about opening up the debates. In principle, I’m all for it. Because I think we need more legit parties involved with the process. But I’m also not sure what the “magic number” is for me for a candidate to deserve a spot.

    I don’t think Nader has it this year. I hear alot about him poling at “as high as 10% in a few states.” And valid arguments can be made about his name not appearing on most polling questionnaires. But Nader has kind of reached “running joke” status with his Presidential aspirations. He isn’t polling any higher than a few percentage points nationally, and he received just 2.7% of the vote in 2000, and an even worse 0.38% of the vote in 2004..

    I hear his supporters complain about him not having the money to go toe to toe with the two main parties. To which I say:

    1) Had he gotten a mere 5% of the vote in 2000, the Greens would have been eligible for public financing. So he failed to help his (former) party achieve legitimacy back then.

    2) Appeal to more people. Raise more money. If you don’t have the ability to do that, why should we take you seriously? Come up with the means to do it. Because so much of what I hear sounds like excuses and whining.

    3) Stop gunning for the Presidency. It seems like a much better strategy to me for a third party to find some key Congressional Districts where they can make some inroads and get a few people elected, maybe even land a Senator or two. Over time that will bring influence and money.

    People have a hard enough time voting for a third party candidate because they have the perception that they’d be throwing their vote away. They’re certainly not going to throw money at a doomed campaign.

    Until people start seeing “G’s” and “I’s” (or whatever letter other than “R” and “D”) next to names on a more regular basis, they’re going to have a hard time taking the third parties seriously. And as long as the third parties continue to focus primarily on the Presidency, they’re going to continue to be seen by most as a running joke.

  17. just a quick comment about the 95% thing, cause it really gets my goat, look at the proposals, raising tax rates on investments, capital gains, death tax, etc. so as long as you don’t have an investment, sell a house, or work for a business that makes more than 250 thousand a year (neither jim or i have ever worked for a company that made less than that) and gets hit with big tax hikes you’ll be fine. that cannot be 95% of americans.

  18. Other statement I wasnt fond of was.

    Obama says, “Actually I’m cutting more than I’m spending so that it will be a net spending cut.”

    “However the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates Obama would increase spending by $425 billion over four years and reduce spending by $144 billion for a net increase in the deficit of $281 billion. Obama has said he’ll cut pork-barrel programs and the costs of the war in Iraq to pay for his programs — as well as raise taxes on the wealthy — but the specifics of his new spending plans outweigh the few spending cuts he’s identified.”

    (AP press report)

  19. the 95% thing is crazy talk.

    you can’t propose monstrous spending AND a tax cut.

    he might as well provide subsidies for unicorn farming.

  20. jess, I was curious about your opinion of McCain’s proposal to have the government buy $300 billion in bad mortgages and then refinance those mortgages with the homeowners at the current (lower) market value.

    Biden’s proposal to have the bankruptcy courts be able to adjust the principle rate wouldn’t cost the taxpayers anything, and would have required the homeowner to file bankruptcy before being able to settle with the banks holding the mortgage. They both lose because one has to go on a credit freeze for the next seven years, and the other gets less of what they were originally owed. But they also both win by being able to keep their house and the banks avoid foreclosure.

    McCain’s plan seems to reward bad behavior on the part of the banks (for stupid lending practices) and the homeowner (for stupid borrowing practices) to the tune of $300 billion of taxpayers money. I’m not sure what the incentive is for responsible behavior on either part with that plan.

  21. here’s the bottom line, the government is WAY WAY WAY WAY too involved in every sector of our lives, this banking disaster is a prime example. unfortunately there is not a good solution. the solution would have been DON’T LET THE GOVERNMENT GET THEIR DIRTY HANDS IN IT! americans, well let’s even say more specifically our generation has lost perspective on personal responsibility, i could really get going here, but….. i don’t like mccain’s proposal, don’t like bidens either. i would be with ron paul on this one.

    and i think we should be learning a lesson from this…..the government needs to be less involved. i cannot even imagine what a mess they will make of healthcare if given the chance. it won’t take many years and we will have a healthcare disaster of these proportions with no good way out.

    that is why i will vote for john mccain, because big government is certainly going to make things worse and though he won’t take trimming the government as far as i think is necessary, at least it won’t get bigger. well there are many more reasons too, but that is a big one.

  22. I don’t know. I think if the Government owned $300 billion worth of the bad mortgages out there it might make it a wee bit larger.

    And we just fundamentally disagree on healthcare. I’ve talked to far too many Canadians in my day. I’ve been sold on nationalized health care for a looong time.

    But that’s fine. It is what it is.

  23. right, i don’t like that $300 billion plan, at least not from the tiny bit i have heard about it, but it may be a necessary evil now that we are where we are, but i hate that.

    but neither of these guys are going to fix this. that’s the issue, government can’t solve these problems, they might try, but they aren’t going to. the constitution didn’t intend them too, we have gotten way far away from what government was supposed to be.

    i have talked to people who have nationalized healthcare and have worse stories then obamas (meaning his mom and the healthcare system) about what that has done to their families, like people dying waiting in line for surgeries, etc. the grass is always greener on the other side.

  24. Shane-
    I agree with you regarding third parties, they need to focus on grass roots efforts if there is ever to be any hope of a successful run. and event if a Libertarian or Green Party candidate ever actually succeeded in becoming President, what could he hope to accomplish without support in Congress? Opposing the President would be come a truly bipartisan effort.

  25. i actually like half of McCain’s ideas and half of obama…can we blend them and get Carlton banks….
    but i am serious both have good ideas…i wish people would operate like Lincoln and say that it doesn’t matter who came up with the idea as long as it is the best idea and have the juevos to go through with it

  26. jim – ron paul has endorsed nader & the 3 major 3rd party candidates (bob barr (L), cynthia mckinney (G) and chuck baldwin (C). so, vote nader 🙂 or, if you want a guy who is basically the same as paul, bob barr, considering ron paul IS a libertarian in republican clothing, as dennis kucinich is a green in democratic clothing.

    it’s funny, i drove 5 hours yesterday from providence to corinna, maine, and in that time i was transported from obamaland to mccainistan. seriously. it was AMAZING. every other house up here has mccain posters outside. and eating at my father’s restaurant this morning, good God, you’d think osama bin laden was running against mccain. my ma told me last night she thinks obama is actually in leauge with “the terrorists”. and, if elected, the u.s. will cease to exist. i told her that if W didn’t destroy in 8 years, we might very well be impervious to destruction! so, that’s good, i suppose 🙂 seriously though, if was a culture shock, going from possibly the most democratic (not liberal or progressive but democratic – there’s a difference) place in the u.s. to backwoods maine and having the whole socio-political view of the masses be turned upside down. amazing.

    and shane, about the nader/3rd party comment, you know that both the republican and democratic parties are controlled by corporate interest. i was watching cnn last night, they did a poll, obama has this %, mccain has this %, and the rest are “undecided”. NO THEY’RE NOT! nader is at 5% nationally. but they don’t include that on the corporate news. they don’t ask people who you want to vote for, they ask do you want tweedle dee or tweedle dum. there is a media bias, but it aint liberal, it’s corporate. if nader had the chance to tear into those 2 stooges, he’d go up to 25%, guaranteed. he and barr, mckinney and baldwin are on enough ballots to technically be elected president. so, they should be able to debate. but corporate interest will not let that happen, b/c the american people might wake the frig up and realize, hey, i don’t have to pick the lesser of two evils, i don’t have to settle for someone i don’t even agree with, i don’t have to give my vote to a corporate stooge. with jesse ventura, they wouldn’t let him debate initially, and he had very low poll %. when they did, guess what, he became governor. if the american people were informed, and if every voter actually voted for the candidate they agreed with MOST, we’d see a friggin’ revolution in our voting system and govt. but, only a billionaire like ross perot or bloomberg can pull it off, b/c the 3rd parties and independents can’t compete to the limitless corporate donations made to the 2 major parties.

  27. and, you can call nader a joke, but is obama one of the 100 most influencial people of the 20th century? and what exactly has he done, compared to the following:

    the safe water drinking act
    clean air act
    freedom of information act
    the environmental protection agency
    seatbelts, airbages & tire safety
    consumer products safety act
    pension protection act
    whistleblower protection act
    save medical device act
    national traffic & motor vehicle safety act
    clean water act
    the occupational health & safety administration

    yeah, he’s just a nutter. what business does he think he has running for president?!?! my God, he’s just a citizen, after all. oh wait, this is supposed be a country by, of and for the people, not by, of and for GE, AIG, microsoft, wal-mart, exxon mobil, etc.

    running joke my bollocks, friend.

  28. thanks, tim, for providing a list that outlines some of the worst “acts” ever enacted…and we can that blame squarely at the feet of nader!


    but you do raise a good point:
    obama hasn’t done anything.

    (now shane will post the bazillion or two bills obama’s name was attached to.)

  29. yeah, you’re right. clean water, safe cars, clean air, citizen’s rights, civil liberties – WHO NEEDS THOSE?!?! ralph nader has done more to BETTER this country then anyone running for any office.

    i bet you think the labor movement ending child labor and creating the weekend was a waste of time, too. good God.

  30. I didn’t say he was a joke, as in that’s my opinion. I like the guy. I said he’s become a running joke, as in whenever you ask someone about Nader it typically causes them to snicker, roll their eyes – or both.

    Which was the same reaction alot of people had about buying a Mac 5-7 years ago. So there’s hope!

  31. yeah, noone outside of Philly has any business being in the limelight at a Flyer’s game unless of course they’re there to support the Flyers. and there was a rumor that she’s a Rangers fan…not good.

  32. She is a Rangers fan. And Scott Gomez is from Anchorage, he took the face off. Could also have alot to do with it.

    C’mon Philly fans! They put the little one in a Flyers jersey. Isn’t that enough? 😆

  33. what she put a Flyers jersey on…better not of been a Bobby Clarke or Hextall or the great gambler Rick Tochett….
    i would be ok with the glass jaw lindros

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