President Obama

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118 thoughts on “President Obama

  1. anyone else have hundreds of facebook status updates that go from one extreme to the other? from “he’s a commie!” to “rick warren is a false teacher!” to “that warren guy is religious right jerk” to “scripture shouldn’t be read at the inauguration”. my main feeling at this point is we need for this man to succeed at being president, he needs to do a good job or this nation is proper screwed. conservatives and progressives like me need to put our agendas aside and truly hope things get better, b/c if they don’t, we’re in a lot of trouble. and that’s my soapbox rant.

    oh, and i wish wish wish oprah would just. shut. up. the end ๐Ÿ™‚

  2. @Jess: I deleted the previous post because I felt it would be far too easy for many to misconstrue what I was saying, and I saw the potential for it to quickly spiral into nonsense. Unfortunately your comment came while I was deleting it, so it was collateral damage.

    But seriously. It was up for less than 30 seconds. How’d you catch it so fast?

    Back to the topic at hand. I thought his speech was great. There were (not so) subtle digs at the Bush administration, but the majority of it was (IMO) universally appealing and inspiring.

  3. So much I want to say about the booing.
    Classless. Ignorant. Idiotic. Childish. Anything but surprising.

    In the words of Simon Cowell…”Off we go, show us what you’ve got. Let us know why you’re the next American Idol Mr. Obama.”

  4. Tough to tell just how many were booing. Given the size of the crowd (2 million?), the idiots appeared to be a scant minority. But I’m with you, it’s never OK to jeer the President.

  5. i think the booing is immature, but i think it’s more misdirected anger. people blame the president for national woes. there’s no doubt that W needs to take plenty on the chin for his decisions and whatnot, but there’s a congress & a cabinet that need to be the recipients of the anger of the american people, too. and hopefully that dissatisfaction would be expressed in a more mature, less wrestling match audience, way. you all know i as a progressive expressed my dissatisfaction with obama throughout the campaign, but honestly, i was incredibly happy to see W leave office, finally. i wouldn’t have booed him like he was nikolai volkoff (anyone?), but i won’t deny thinking “thank God he’s gone”. and, at the same time, realizing so much of the problems will continue b/c again, congress & the entire govt in this country is corporate controlled & corrupt. but, i do have some hope that maybe some things will get better. maybe some young people in the desert will be able to come home, maybe some people like me who want to work more than anything will be given the opportunity with some job creation, maybe health care will improve and it won’t cost a person $250 to get a prescription filled b/c they don’t have coverage. maybe. hopefully.

  6. shane: i was wondering? pure dumb luck i guess that i caught it! ๐Ÿ˜‰

    the booing……i don’t even know what to say. the same people will be booing obama in a year if things don’t magically improve. and no matter what anyone thinks history will smile on bush and i think at this point he is man enough to take it.
    leadership sucks, especially in tough times, good luck obama, you are going to need it! it’s a tough crowd!

  7. well, it’s become the national pastime to hate bush. the hate clinton got was a tiny match flame next to the majestic glare of the sun in comparison. (and he got too much hate at that)

    so of course there was booing.

    i can only hope that Christians will pray for Obama with their whole hearts.

  8. did anyone catch obama’s girls party last night on the disney channel?
    They definately know that papa is in charge…they had everyone there from Miley cyrus (or for you tim Hannah montana) and Billy Ray….usher who introduced NJ’s own Jonas Bros.
    wow I think my theory about Disney controls the world might have more validity….

    from what I caught I thought the ceremony went well….he didn’t talk long which earned points in my book….I will support him and trust that he means what he says..

  9. I’m glad it’s over…

    Honestly, the hoopla was getting a little overwhelming and frustrating, and I voted for Obama. The celebrity status that so many have elevated to him is bothersome. I think that much of the country got so caught up in all of it that they’ve missed the realization that the weight of the world has just been heapt (is that a word) upon his shoulders.

    Meanwhile, I can only imagine the feeling of release and peace that George W. must be feeling right now. The first real time of relief he’s felt in eight years. I look foward to having some more accurate hindsight in the coming years as history begins to shape GWB’s legacy. I believe that it will be looked upon in better light in future years as we get perspective on his choices and leadership.

  10. Only thing I was surprised by was that Bush didn’t run out of town to get away because I am sure after 8 years no matter how good or bad you are lots of stuff ends up beating you down.

    Booing the president is fine 95% of the time but when he is leaving anyways I guess I don’t understand it. Once again Tim is right about where to spread this blame around and how low the approval of the Congress is as well even now with an all Democrat run Congress these last two years.

    Finally the one thing that was very revealing that my friend Bush said was no matter what he did he always had to wake up and think of 9/11 first every single day. Obama will not have to and wouldn’t anyways so perhaps he will be the domestic help we all seek.

    Now back to convincing the government that I cannot afford my mortgage because I bought to much house for my income, but it was them that fooled me. I need a bailout soon hurry up Obama.

  11. If only they had taken the $750 bank bailout, the $14 billion auto bailout and Obamaโ€™s proposed $800 stiumulus and given that $1.5 trillion back to taxpayers. I think someone figured that out at about $125,000 per household.

    We would have solved the housing crisis over night as everyone would have at least gotten current with their mortgage payments. People would have probably pumped a ton into the stock market since itโ€™s a buyers market anyway. People couldโ€™ve afforded healthcare for another year or two as well.

    *sigh*

  12. c’mon, where can I complain about policy?

    “WASHINGTON โ€“ President Barack Obama on Friday struck down the Bush administration’s ban on giving federal money to international groups that perform abortions or provide abortion information โ€” an inflammatory policy that has bounced in and out of law for the past quarter-century. Obama’s executive order, the latest in an aggressive first week reversing contentious Bush policies, was warmly welcomed by liberal groups and denounced by abortion rights foes.

    The ban has been a political football between Democratic and Republican administrations since GOP President Ronald Reagan first adopted it 1984. Democrat Bill Clinton ended the ban in 1993, but Republican George W. Bush re-instituted it in 2001 as one of his first acts in office.

    A White House spokesman, Bill Burton, said Obama signed the executive order, without coverage by the media, late on Friday afternoon. The abortion measure is a highly emotional one for many people, and the quiet signing was in contrast to the televised coverage of Obama’s Wednesday announcement on ethics rules and Thursday signing of orders on closing the Guantanamo Bay prison camp and banning torture in the questioning of terror suspects.”

    Day 2-Move Terrorists (and suspects) into American prisons where I’m sure they’ll be treated well. Think about it.

    Day 3-Take my tax dollars to help fund abortions. Excellent.

    I feel better already with this guy!

  13. yeah, this is one of those things that my fellow progressives and the self-described liberals get excited about and i’m the odd man out, thinking yeah, not really into more abortions. but, it seems that no matter what is done with legislation, the number of abortions performed just increase with every single year, no matter who is president, as shown with how many happened last year w/ bush and the ban. this is one of those issues that i don’t want to call a distraction, b/c i realize how serious it is, but the repubs & dems can state they have different stances, but no repub administration is going to overturn roe -v- wade, and while people choose sides based on this, the bottom line of government stays the same.

    though, gitmo being closed is a great thing, and i certainly was glad to hear about the closing (though a year away). a torture camp on an island that we have an embargo against is just awful. if we want to hold our heads up as torchbearers of democracy and human rights, we can’t have things like that taking place. we don’t want our troops tortured in iraq & afghanistan do we? this is just basic human rights, regardless of who the person detained is. that’s the geneva ruling. they are POW’s. they have rights, even if they are sick demented people.

  14. I just don’t like the fact that my money is going towards funding abortions for women in countries that don’t want to have a female baby, or because they’re poor and an American Aid worker wants to grant them some sort of liberation.
    I’m not saying Roe v Wade should be overturned, that’s besides the point.

    1. Our troops (and civilians, and journalists, and missionaries) are tortured regardless of what WE do as a country.
    2. I agree that they should not be tortured.
    3. Moving them into an American prison will only cause more trouble for them I would think like persecution, beatings from inmates and officers, etc.

  15. they are NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT POW’s!!!

    Prisoner of War implies a captured soldier from an enemy state…these guys are soldiers of an ideology who most certainly do not play by the rules of the Geneva convention.
    also known as terrorists.

    they wore no official government uniform and therefore are denied the Geneva conventions protections.

    i agree they are human. i agree they have rights. but they aren’t miranda rights and they aren’t geneva convention rights.

  16. truth exactly stem.
    we assume, we treat these people well, they will live by our rules, and they will then like us and all will be happy sunshine, good……not so much.
    what scares me is our government making decisions so other countries will like us more.
    1. it won’t work
    2. it’s like telling a child to do whatever it takes to make other people like him cause that’s the most important thing.

  17. wow shane….i fully agree with you on the terrorist issue….
    I just hope they have a good plan to move forward…because if some of these guys weren’t terrorist as some claim…they probably would like to be now

  18. i just think if we’re going to hold ourselves up as moral torchbearers we should act like it, and be BETTER than the enemy. why are we saying “they torture us!”? do we really want to stoop to their level? we’re supposed to be better then that, c’mon!

    on a personal level i’m going to try and actually live out what jesus taught, and love my enemy.

  19. i didn’t say that tim. i didn’t say we should torture because they do.
    we ARE better than the enemy. the worst attrocity at “gitmo” absolutely PALES in comparrison to what those guys do to our captured soldiers.
    but i’m not calling for torture. i’m not calling for an “eye for an eye”

    my umbrage was with your calling them “POW’s”…a term the media uses. a term some democrats use. to imply that these guys should be treated with the respect of the geneva convention.
    Geneva was clear: you have to be a uniformed soldier of a recognized nation to expect to be protected under Geneva convention guidelines. These guys are TERROISTS. They are not playing by geneva convention rules and should not be granted the safe haven it provides for nations at war.

    They should be tried as war criminals and executed if found guilty.

    On a personal level, i too am going to love my enemy. But i’m not going to pretend that the God of Love is not also the God of Justice.

  20. i haven’t read the book…i gave up on rob bell shortly after velvet elvis. sola scriptura is very important to me, and bell gives me the willies the more he talks about narrative theology and “binding and loosing” scripture.

    regardles….
    i can only assume that your use of the term “redemptive violence” is in response to my comment on God’s Justice?

  21. ok, i’m confused about the POW bit though, b/c weren’t these fellas captured during our war in afghanistan, though coming from various national backgrounds? i realize al-qaeda is not a government, but i assumed if caught during our war on terror, which our govt tells us is as real a war as any we’ve fought, that they’d be prisoners of war. but, i you know what assuming can do ๐Ÿ™‚

  22. Tim, the whole POW argument is a cutesy way of shirking accountability and justifying torture. We deposed the Taliban, so they’re not the recognized authority and don’t fight under the uniform of the Afghan gov’t. So, technically, you could argue that they aren’t prisoners of war and therefore the Geneva Convention doesn’t apply.

    For example:

    Geneva was clear: you have to be a uniformed soldier of a recognized nation to expect to be protected under Geneva convention guidelines.

    … except the Supreme Court disagrees. At least they did in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, and in other caes as well where they essentially reached the same conclusion as was the position of the International Committee of the Red Cross, which states:

    “Every person in enemy hands must have some status under international law: he is either a prisoner of war and, as such, covered by the Third Convention, a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention, [or] a member of the medical personnel of the armed forces who is covered by the First Convention. There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can fall outside the law.”

    You want to try them as war criminals? Fine. If you can bring a case against them, then by all means do it.

    But don’t circumvent the Uniform Code of Military Justice or the Geneva Convention by setting up a super-secret military commission that operates out of its own volition and under its own jurisdiction. Don’t detain prisoners for years without ever bringing a charge against them. And for heaven’s sake, don’t torture them!

    There was plenty of room to operate within the framework of both U.S. and International Law. Gitmo has been a cluster f— from day one. But it didn’t have to be.

    But let’s face it. Obama closing Guantanamo is merely symbolic at this point. Of the 750 detainees that have come through there, only an estimated 40-60 will ever see a trial. The military has already released, or it set to release the rest.

    And I have to take exception to the new line I’m hearing from conservatives about not wanting to bring detainees to the States because of how they’ll be treated in prisons here. Really? We’re worried about their treatment now? That’s exactly why the entire world has been up in arms about operations at Gitmo for the past five years! Remember? When we were water boarding them? When we were making their information unreliable – and their testimony inadmissible – because it was gathered by torture?

    But that’s right … we needed those secret commissions and tribunals. Because we knew that information obtained from torture wouldn’t be worth squat in war crimes trials. But if the military could act as judge, jury and executioner they could do whatever they wanted.

    How can we condone this and still call ourselves free? We can’t be okay with our President and military going rogue and operating outside of established U.S. and International law. Otherwise you compromise your integrity, and you compromise your mission. The next thing you know you’re the ones standing trial for war crimes – which remains a very real possibility.

    This is why you operate above the fray, with honor and integrity. Not shrouded by secrecy and in the shadows.

  23. how shane, how should we ‘operate above the fray’, close gitmo the ‘cluster f—‘ and then what? seriously, it is easy to critque the people who have kept our country safe from an attack since 9/11, but they did just that, don’t you think they deserve some respect. you or i have never had to interrogate a terrorist, and neither has mr obama. it’s easy to judge from our computer in our safe home in america.

  24. @stem: It was directed at any use of violence to solve problems.

    You don’t care for Rob Bell so you probably won’t appreciate what he has to say in the book, but he really drives home the point that we’ve been in a circle of “violence to solve problems” since Cain killed Abel. And it never works.

    MLK’s autobiography is also a great read on the subject of non-violence.

  25. Disagreement isn’t disrespect. Please don’t ever imply that I don’t have respect our government or our troops. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    And also please don’t imply that I take my freedom and security for granted because I disagree with your opinion on this issue. Or that I am ungrateful for the sacrifice that others have made because I see things differently than you.

    I’ve had close blood relatives and lifelong friends fight in both Afghanistan and Iraq. A cause I don’t agree with, but support their allegiance to.Please don’t ever lecture me about respect.

    To imply that my disagreeing with a government policy that has been declared illegal by the United States Supreme Court, as well as vehemently protested throughout the international community, is somehow unpatriotic, ungrateful or disrespectful is unfair.

    Especially in a country that was founded on the idea that voicing dissension is one of the most patriotic things you can do. I’m not going to be bullied, or made to feel like a jerk, just because I disagree with someone about some stupid issue.

  26. we deposed the taliban…and they now control more of afghanistan then we/our puppet govt. awesome.

    and i refuse to give all credit to our nation not being attacked since 9/11 to W or his administration. that is simply something that cannot be answered – did they stop attacks, or were there simply no more attempts? was it the wars that stopped terrorism? was it the patriot act? but, like i’ve said to every supporter of the patriot act – yes, i would rather be killed by a terrorist then have my constitutional rights taken away and be spied on illegally by my government. that’s what liberty is. if the pat act has kept any attacks from happening, it’s not worth it (imo, and yes, i’m being completely serious). this is the united states of america and we the people are supposed to have guaranteed civil liberties via our constitution, and we are supposed to control the govt not have the govt control us, and the pat act is like taking the bill of rights and putting it in a shredder.

    of course, we could do a completely radical thing and just get the hell out of the middle east & central asia altogether, once and for all, and take a neutral stance on the israel/palestine conflict and i guarantee you that we won’t have to worry about terrorism. when was the last time a terrorist attack happened in switzerland?

  27. mudpuppy:
    God used lots of violence, including the Cross, to solve problems. It’s not always the answer…but sometimes it is. We’re not living in a berkley utopia here. Denying the brutality of our world won’t make it go away. Claiming that God never condones justice through “violence” is disengenious.

  28. in regard to my last comment, i wanted to clarify that i’m not saying the previous adminstration did nothing good or is not deserving of any credit – but it’s impossible to quantify or guage “how much” terrorism they kept from occurring in the u.s. if an attack happens during obama’s administration a lot of people will say “you see!”, but i really don’t think it’s as a direct connection to who the president is as many think.

    and i forgot to touch upon the justice of God…yes, God is just, and thankfully so. otherwise most evil people are able to get away with being evil. but, jesus told us as his followers to be peacemakers, to turn the other cheek, to put down the sword, to love our enemies. justice belongs to God. it might seem like a “berkley utopia”, but it’s what he said. and to refer to switzerland again – people argue “you can’t run a govt based on the teachings of jesus, it’s not practical”, but being a much more peaceful nation is clearly possible – and those of us who claim faith should be more peaceful. we should be objecting to so much violence being used by our govt., imo. and ironically, many of those who say that are also “religious right” people who say govt should be based on the bible! jesus told peter to put his sword away, not to keep stabbing. it’s an awfully dangerous thing, imo, to say what violence God “condones” and which he does not. that’s what the islamo-fascists use as justification. do we want to be like that? justice belongs to God.

  29. i’m not condoning violence for the simple sake of it. i’m not condoning vigilante justice in the name of God. (like the people who bomb abortion clinics)

    this is what i mean when i talk about “violence” and the Justice of God:

    Romans 13:3-4
    For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. BUT IF YOU DO EVIL, BE AFRAID; FOR HE DOES NOT BEAR THE SWORD IN VAIN; FOR HE IS GOD’S MINISTER, AN AVENGER TO EXECUTE WRATH ON HIM WHO PRACTICES EVIL.

    you can certainly extropalate from this passage that “the sword” refers to any measure of punishment…but it certainly includes capital punishment.

    regardless, God uses governments to exact certain aspects of His Justice. Governments are made up of men.

    When governments themselves are evil, God uses other countries to punish them. That’s why Jeremiah’s ministry was so unpopular: he was telling Israel that Babylon was going to clean them out for their wickedness.

  30. Shane:

    Our cutesy way? You’re ridiculous. Geneva was and is clear. It isn’t a justification, it’s a fact. Terrorists are NOT fighting on the behalf of a country. They are fighting on behalf of an ideology. Specifically, a religion that is not confined to borders or laws.

    I do not care what the Red Cross said about it. I’m unclear what the Supreme Court said about it and i’m even more unclear with what they have a right to say about it (it’s a military issue, not a constitutional one).

    If waterboarding saves lives, then do it. I’ll gladly allow sleep deprivation and barry manilow music, which is the torture i’m so happy to justify in my cutesy way, to save lives.

    HOWEVER, i don’t like the idea of actual torture, such as that employed by our enemy, to be used. So i will agree that some kind of agreed upon law needs to be put in place to specifically deal with terrorists and their “rights”.

    My point from the get go was and is that under Geneva, non-uniformed soldiers are denied it’s jurisdiction.

  31. there is absolutely NO WAY i as a christian think the death penalty is at all acceptable. but, i’ve retired from debating b/c it’s pointless.

  32. Why is it that when “conservatives” (or those that may have an opinion about an issue that is similar to those that call themselves conservatives) bring up talking points or make an argument on here the opposed simply say “it’s pointless” or go into a mini tirade…and then recant and almost offer an apology?
    We are a group of adult followers of Jesus that have very different interpretations of both the Word and the World.
    Remember, we know each other and we know Jesus…let’s avoid conversation that wouldn’t happen if you were sitting across from me…

  33. tim, pulling out and remaining neutral would be a great idea, seriously, i wish it were possible. but when you are one of the largest most powerful countries in the world, i think it’s probably not possible. no one cares about switzerland, cause no one cares about switzerland, you know?
    i don’t think the us would be able to get away with it. i wish we could though.

  34. Why is it that when โ€œconservativesโ€ (or those that may have an opinion about an issue that is similar to those that call themselves conservatives) bring up talking points or make an argument on here the opposed simply say โ€œitโ€™s pointlessโ€ or go into a mini tiradeโ€ฆand then recant and almost offer an apology?

    Hey, there’s nothing “mini” about my tirades!

    Let’s just keep in mind that Conservatives don’t own the market on loving their country, appreciating their freedom, respecting the government or supporting the troops. That’s pretty much all I ask.

    But for the record, I’ve never said anything here I wouldn’t say in person.

  35. it’s just that very often a lot of what you say shane doesn’t sound appreciative, respectful, or supportive, so we’re just here to keep you in line! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  36. tim, i mean this with all of my heart. not sarcastic. not snide:

    what biblical evidence makes you feel that, as a Christian, capital punishment is unacceptable?

    because the Romans passage above certainly allows it, as did the law of Moses.

  37. stem – the words of jesus. in particular, all of matthew 5, and of all that, “you’ve heard it said an eye for an eye” most significantly. an eye for an eye was the law in the torah that called for capital punishment.

    i believe that God alone should take life b/c God alone gives life.

    and i think there’s plenty of others who share this view that makes it valid – from the catholic church which espouses a consistent ethic of life, as do many evangelicals, to groups like the quakers, the mennonites, and “peace churches”,
    and early church fathers like origen, justin martyr, maximilian, tertullian & others, up to modern day leaders like MLK.

    and jimmy the reason i said i was tired of debating is b/c it doesn’t solve anything, no one is “converted” to the others POV, it always just leads to bickering and the views you disagree with are just resolved to be true even more by the person who you debate with. i think it’s a pointless endeavor. and that’s why this post has over 40 comments, b/c we’re all trying to convince each other that our POV is the one to subscribe to.

  38. nah, man, I’ve actually been giving it all thought and asking myself questions like “am I an ignorant follower? should I feel differently about these issues?” etc etc.
    That’s my point is that the discussion should carry on as if we were looking at each other across a table…not looking at a computer monitor like we hate each other or that the other person is an idiot.
    Anyway, that’s all for now. I have work to do and a job to try and retain.
    Peace out by appendix missing brother.

  39. I’d only smack Tim because he’s a Red Sox and Pats fan!

    You on the other hand….

    of course if we had any kind of physical altercation it could be videoed and marketed as midget wrestling so let’s not do that.

  40. from a vocal regular (and nyack grad)
    i can’t help but think, cause i always go back here, how we are so concerned (we being our country as a whole) about the treatment of these prisoners, and persecuting or killing innocent people, yet we slaughter truely innocent babies over and over and over, and now give other countries money to do the same? wierd right? and sad.
    tim, this is why i now hate oprah, her tears over puppy mills and then constant support of abortion, is way too much for me to handle! and she’s just become annoying. but worthy of a senate seat if your crazy blago…………….;-)

  41. actually jimmy, i like the bears more than the pats ๐Ÿ™‚

    i do have video of jim & ben b. wrestling. someday i’ll youtube it!

  42. seriously, that’d be fantastic! he was so lanky and odd to wrestle…similar to a worm, yet surprisingly stronger than I thought he would be.
    back to obama…or abortion…or capital punishment…or justice

  43. I was supposed to fight Dustin Cook in the middle of Mosley Field on the last day of classes my first year at Nyack. There was no ill will between us, we just thought it would be fun. When it came time to do it, we both backed down.

    Turns out it was more fun talking about it all year long and making empty threats to each other than it would have ever been actually fighting.

  44. I went to Southwestern Chrisitan University in OKC and grew up in WV.

    I’ve never even been to NY. I’m pretty sure that’s a result of the Providence of God.

    How did i wind up here?
    Dirt?

  45. the first baptist church in america is in providence, founded by roger williams, who also founded rhode island – he got kicked out of mass by the puritans, and apparently is the only founder of a colony who paid the native peoples fairly.

    long story short, i think some baptists might say you’re right shane ๐Ÿ™‚

    now, let’s see if we can break 100 comments on this post.

  46. i am a vocal one that unfortunately wasted my money at nyack….well not completely true beside meeting my wife and great friends….
    just not a big fan of certain profs who tried to take it over and now are running ATS….lets say Ron W….no that would be too obvisious maybe R. Walborn….hmm
    did i cross a line

  47. Since I know he’s read this blog from time to time … probably. ๐Ÿ˜†

    And this part is going to sound like a personal attack, please try not to take it as such!

    For the life of me I can’t understand the people who attended Nyack for four years and feel that it was a waste of money. What were they expecting? Did they look at any other schools? At no point during their four years there did they consider transferring if it was so bad?

    Now granted. I probably overpaid for the education I received there. And there were certainly cheaper options, with better facilities, much closer to home. But it was the right place for me, and I wouldn’t trade my experience there for the world.

    I’ll never forget the time I was hanging out with a few Nyack alumni long after my time there, just catching up on life over a basket of wings and a couple beers. There were three of them that basically said, “my education at Nyack didn’t do jack for me.” Then they all admitted that they hadn’t actually finished and still didn’t have their degrees.

    Oi vay. ๐Ÿ˜†

  48. I have no real place in the Nyack conversation, but as for college in general… my education (Harding University) was overpriced and under-delivered, but I’d do it all over again in a heartbeat simply for the experience and friendships that resulted from it.

    I imagine that is true with most college experiences.

  49. In my estimation it was I who failed Nyack, not vice versa. I didn’t literally fail, but I was a crummy student and didn’t take advantage of the opportunities afforded by a school like Nyack. Now I’m getting a second chance at ATS (despite Shane’s protests and Ron W’s sinister mind control!).

  50. oh no, mudpuppy! oh no!

    my high school sweetheart went to harding. i visited the campus and sat in on a few classes. when they found out a student’s CHARISMATIC boyfriend was going to show up, the prof. made sure i heard his POV on the gifts.

    good times!

    of course, i did have green hair and elvis sideburns at the time…i probably deserved it.

  51. yes yes yes

    I was an in-step conservative while I was there, but have since grown so far left in politics and religion that should they find out they’d demand my diploma back.

  52. well, an in-grown tonail is growth too.

    ha ha.

    i too am kidding.

    what years were you out there, mudpuppy?

    Searcy was like a green oasis in the middle of a brown wasteland. Heber Springs was cool, too

  53. Shifted may have been more accurate, but I think I’ll stick w/ grown. ๐Ÿ™‚

    I was there from ’95-’01 (a career student)

    There is no denying that the Harding campus is a work of beauty. I camped w/ some fellow grads last October at Heber Springs. Also a work o beauty!

  54. well…that’s when i visited (94-95)

    maybe we ate lunch in the student center.

    after all these years, the internet is still a weird place.

    i hestitate to ask, but did you know jody c. from WV? that was my afore mentioned sweetheart.

  55. ha ha ha.

    thats the thing shane…i think it was her economics prof that read me the riot act on the gifts.

    and that’s probably all you need to know about harding.

  56. a. this comment will bring us 19 from 100

    b. i have never been able to comprehend how unfair pay has been able to exist for so long. it’s insulting, and i’m a dude (not to be confused with THE dude).

    c. every pearl jam song has misheard lyrics! it’s a lot of “ramma lamma ding dong” said fast and/or muttered with a funny voice. and i’m a fan, i’m just sayin’…

  57. A. Oh, I’m quite confident we’ll get to 100. I have a feeling it will be the catch all for every gripe and praise. Then there will be the inevitable blowout. Then the inevitable kiss and make up. Then the inevitable rabbit trail. Then the next gripe or praise. Repeat.

    B. I’m with ya. And I’m not afraid to admit that the majority of the hardest working and most talented people I’ve ever worked with are women. For them to make 75 cents on the dollar is a national embarrassment.

    C. I think Eddie Vedder gets a cortisone shot in the tounge just prior to entering the studio. There’s no other way to explain how he can manage to do vocals on an entire album, yet not actually mutter a single comprehensible phrase.

  58. Holy cow, this post sure ran down the rabbit trail. I haven’t been around for a few days and this thing like tripled in posts. There’s some things hashed out above that I would have jumped into commenting on had I seen them earlier, but let’s let those discussions stay there.

  59. I was mulling over my “national embarrassment” comment during lunch.. I found myself forced to come at it from a different angle.

    Comparatively speaking women in the U.S. do pretty darn good for themselves. Granted, they may still be making 25% less than men for the same work, but they are at least allowed to do the work.

    They don’t have to cover themselves from head to toe, they don’t get stoned to death for being raped. Most aren’t forced into prostitution as the only way to provide for themselves and their children. Etc, etc.

    So in some respects, America can hold its head high regarding the place women have in society. On the other, we still have a ways to go…

    In my opinion, the Ledbetter Bill seems like a progressive step in the right direction.

  60. i think the heart of the ledbetter bill is probably good, but i don’t think it’s the right approach.

    i think you are right shane, and way to be glass half full ;-), women in america are treated HUGELY better than women in the rest of the world.

    i think where things started to go wrong though are where women decided they wanted to be equal to men. we aren’t equal, we are different. instead of demanding to be respected and appreciated for who we are and what we choose to do, we instead have made this path for ourselves which demands that we be just like, just as good, and equal with men. i don’t think it will ever satisfy.

  61. i think it opens the floodgates for trial lawyers to sue the PANTS off of business. wasn’t it more of a statute of limitations law than anything else?

  62. for sure a female, jim’s wife actually.
    and i lived in the middle east for a year and cry regularly for those women. even as a ‘free’ american women living there as a woman was a terrible feeling.

  63. geez, here we go. women in the workplace is the reason for so many of the problems we have today.
    I can’t be paid more because there are too many people being paid too much already.
    We can barely live off of one salary because, “who lives off one salary anymore? of course we’re only going to pay you such a small amount. tell your wife to get a job!”
    Kids getting into trouble after school…I speak from experience, cause moms aren’t home to smack them.
    Disability lawsuits, discrimination lawsuits, lawsuits, pantsuits.
    Anyway, I have an opinion about this that I normally keep to myself but what the heck!?
    In the words of Chris Rock, “that’s right, I said it!”

  64. Is it women in the workplace Jim? Or moms in the workplace? Because I’m partially with you on moms. But single women, married without children, empty nesters shouldn’t be a part of the workforce? I can’t get with that.

    I honestly don’t think we’ll see much by way of lawsuits. And frankly, if someone can bring a winnable case before a judge or jury, so be it. That’s why we have courts, to carry out justice.

    I think what we’ll find is that the looming threat of lawsuits will cause companies to reflect internally on their pay structure and make sure their policies aren’t inviting a lawsuit.

  65. and so I can add an aside, I believe that women were/are not praised enough by their husbands to feel like their role in the home is worthy of praise.
    Let me take this moment again to publicly praise my wife for keeping our home amazing…heck, we wouldn’t have a home if it weren’t for her…it’d be shack with unpaid bills. Our children would be malnourished and wear ugly clothes. Other women that Jess comes in contact with (because she has a few moments of free time to meet with them) would not be growing closer to Jesus and following him. OY, the list goes on and on. At the end of Proverbs where the author lists the attributes of a Godly woman I always think “yes, this is my wife. I have full confidence in her to handle anything that comes our way.”
    So let the record show, I am not a misogynist nor do I think there is no place at all for women in the “work place”. I just think, well, you read the above comment.

  66. And just to rub some of the varnish off of Jim’s glowing review of his wife… here’s a joke that I heard a while ago that always gets “the look” from my wife. But too bad… it’s funny!

    Why do brides always wear white?

    Because your dishwasher should always match the stove and fridge!

  67. *rim shot*

    pantsuits ๐Ÿ™‚

    there’s no doubt that a child needs a good strong mother to smack ’em. my ma & her wooden spoon were a blessing in disguise. i’m glad we were able to have ma at home when i was young, and then when i went to school and she went back to work that we lived next door to my grandparents. jimmy, i give you all the credit in the world trying to do it on one salary with those beautiful lil’ ones o’ yours. seriously, i’m toasting to you tonight!

  68. what i would like to see is some help, respect, or support for women who decide that staying home with their children is more important. there is TONS of help out there already for women with children who are working. where’s the love, huh?

  69. i don’t have any great ideas off the top of my head. but continuing to make it easier for women (i guess i am actually mostly talking about mothers) to work makes it harder for mothers not to and a family to survive on one salary.

    maybe part of that multi billion dollar package should be paying mothers to stay at home with their kids, it would create jobs, and it would raise and educate better children. i think that would be money much better spent than in schools or lawns, etc. so that’s my idea! think it’ll take off?

  70. Should I point out that Jess just proposed that the government give money to women to stay home, crank out kids, and not work?

    I thought you Conservatives hated welfare? ๐Ÿ˜†

    I kid. It’s not a terrible idea. It would be more likely to grow legs as a tax break versus an entitlement. Although, I don’t see the government being proactive in encouraging people to homeschool (if that’s what you’re refering to by “educate”). I doubt they’d be keen on undercutting public school. The teacher’s union is way too strong!

  71. yeah 100!

    no the gov shouldn’t pay people to homeschool, i just mean the general teaching of one’s children, that is often neglected when both parents are at work and they are in daycare or afterschool care, or alone…..you know.
    but, i DO believe people who choose to homeschool should get refunded taxes from their local gov., you know that ever popular voucher idea.
    but i won’t homeschool, i don’t think, who knows.

    oh and i don’t hate welfare, but it is a glowing example of how good ideas and good intentions can fail miserably! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  72. oh and i donโ€™t hate welfare, but it is a glowing example of how good ideas and good intentions can fail miserably! ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Great point. It’s kind of like WIC. I know alot of hard working folks who take advantage of it because those few extra bucks a month really helps. If they qualify, why the heck not?

    Then there are those…

  73. Hey, we are too. Of course, that makes me feel a little weird about my next blog post, but c’est la vie.

    The only thing that drives me nuts is that they give us way too much milk & cheese. It’s always funny to me when we have to give away the surplus before it goes bad. It’s always to people who wouldn’t qualify. I just figure … it was their tax dollars that paid for it anyway…

  74. yeah there is way too much. i trade with another friend who get it as well, and we have too much milk and she has too much juice, jim is opposed to my trading, so you shane just gave me support! ๐Ÿ˜‰ i appreciate it!

  75. my father loves to bring up welfare and how it’s all LBJ’s fault, along with the JFK assassination, vietnam, affirmative action, lesbians, patriots games being broadcast on the nfl network, mexicans, nessy, the price of cigarettes and diabetes.

    the rest is kissinger’s fault.

  76. well, i think it’s chuck d’s “mentoring” to me as a young teen…but i think i loved PE so much b/c my father hated it ๐Ÿ™‚

  77. At the end of Proverbs where the author lists the attributes of a Godly woman I always think โ€œyes, this is my wife. I have full confidence in her to handle anything that comes our way.โ€

    Speaking of the Proverbs 31 super-woman that nearly all young Christian men pin their hopes on one day securing for their own…

    I’ve always found it curious how much work she’s involved with outside of the house, and how little it is discussed.

    In the description – beyond tending to the matters of her own home – the woman is involved with real estate, she manages a staff of employees, she works the fields and dabbles in agriculture, she is a manufacturer and retailer of apparel, etc., etc.

    She’s gotta put in a 75 hour work week on top of raising her kids and providing for her family!

    So props to you working moms out there!

    And here’s one you can help out!

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